Rollbar suggestions?

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Rollbar suggestions?

Post  KoneCrusher on Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:02 pm

I'm planning on putting a rollbar on my '99 Miata (finally!) and would be interested in comments and suggestions. I'm leaning toward the Boss Frog Clearview Maxx for better seat recline, maximum height and to set the bar further back for safer street driving (I don't have an hard top and don't plan on one).

Thoughts and ideas? If you're coming the the banquet with your Miata I'd be very interested in seeing what you have. Other option is Hard Dog Hard Core DD.

I want to be sure that the bar will meet the broomstick test for Solo I events.

-- Rich A.
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  Joe on Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:54 pm

Hey Rich...

You might have to remove some foam from the seats to make the broom stick test... Depends on the group you end up driving with when you do the SOLO 1...

This just went up on Craig's list recently
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/pts/894085752.html

If it is all there it is a good price and a good bar...
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  mike.s on Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:07 pm

I have a thought. Don't put a bar in an autocross car. This is 40 lbs of dead weight really high up in the car.

The only reason I have mine is to use a 5-point harness. Otherwise I would take it out.

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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  KoneCrusher on Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:43 am

I need the rollbar to do track and to put a 6-point harness. Talking to Good-Win Racing last night, it seems like the HDHCDD bar provides the best height and at 5'8" I should be able to be 2" under the bar. His suggestion was to use SFI padding on the bar to help minimize injury to the head without a helment.

BTW, the bar on Craigslist that Joe posted is a Hard Dog M1 Sport, never never used, fits a 90-97 NA. Good deal for someone in the club.
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  KoneCrusher on Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:45 am

The guy with the bar goes to school in Boston but the bar is in Cape Cod, his name is Alex, if anyone is interested contact him directly at ah.franks@yahoo.com

-- Rich
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  mike.s on Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:10 pm

My bar is HDHCDD. I'm about the same 5.8" - 5.9" and have a Sparco seat, which is pretty thin and low. I believe i would pass the broom test in a helmet, but just barely.

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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  KoneCrusher on Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:30 pm

Brian from Good-Win Racing says at 5'8" I would clear the bar on stock seats, but I'm sceptical (and Bill B. concurs). Your information confirms that. So... solution seems to be to get a racing seat and harness for the track only, take it out for street and autocross. More $$ and more PITA. From what I gather, the autocross clubs do not care about the broomstick test if you're using a harness with rollbar, except for the SCCA which apparently does check. Or just forget about the harness for autocross and use CG-locks, or just forget about the roll bar and forget about track, or go CSP, or, or, or....

Damn, why is this so complicated?

-- Rich
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  Joe on Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:54 pm

I believe, if you read the rules you will find that there is no Broom Stick test if you have an OEM Hard Top on the Miata but you still must have a Roll Bar for most Track events...
Patience in searching for a Hard Top is well rewarded or you might be able to borrow one...
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  Bill B. on Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:10 pm

You should go CSP Rich. All it takes is a seat and some coilovers and your car will be better prepped than Rob's Razz I'm trying hard to resist the urge to buy coilovers over the winter Twisted Evil The chance to win $$$$ in E-stock at some national tour events is kinda keeping me in check Cool Good to see that you're not trusting Brian Goodwin like I did. That lying silent silent silent silent head.

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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  KoneCrusher on Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:01 pm

Bill -- are you trying to psyche me out of Stock R-Compounds so I'm not breathing down your neck any more? Wink Seriously, I do agree, it's tempting to try something different, I've been running stock in the same car for 6 years now so a change of pace would be welcome. I tried my new MS3 at the BMW event, as you remember, and it made me appreciate the Miata more than ever. Fighting understeer in a FWD car was no fun, I'm sticking with a Miata!!

After lots of reading on miata.net and calling around to a couple of place that sell roll bars, I've come to the following conclusions:

1. There's a lot of conflicting information that's posted and it's hard to sort out fact from fiction

2. Unless you're 5'5" or under, you will NOT pass the 2" broomstick test on stock seats, regardless of which bar you get

3. The Hard Dog Hard Core DD, Boss Frog Clearview Standard and BF Clearview Maxx are all at about the same height which is about as high as you can get in a roll bar with a convertible top. These 3 bars are all SCCA (Solo I) approved. There are a few others (Autopower, CSC) but I'm not really considering them. The Hard Dog Ace does not have the side protection I want and I personally don't like the looks.

4. The Maxx sits further back (about 2") than the other two and is therefore a little safer for street use and allows the seats to fully recline, it would be the best choice in that respect. Ric from BF assures me it's the same height as the standard bar.

5. For track use, none of the bars would pass the broomstick test with stock seats, a foamectomy on the stock seats *might* work or might not (drops you down 1 - 1.5"), a better solution would be to get a set of racing seats (e.g. Sparco) with a 6-point harness for track use only. That also solves the issue of shoulder belts slipping off with stock seats and makes for a safer track setup.

6. For autocross, other than SCCA events, I should be able to use a harness with stock seats with any of these bars. If I did SCCA, I'd have to use just the lap belt.

7. Adding a hardtop to a roll bar, harness and stock seats is one solution fo track , as Joe points out. You don't need to pass the broomstick test. The BF Clearview Maxx can't be used with a hardtop (though some people have reported they've been able to make it work). I don't really want to spend $1K for a hardtop just for track (I don't really need one otherwise), I'd prefer to put the money toward race seats.


CONCLUSION:

--> Get a BF Clearview Maxx for better street safety, find some race seats that can be quickly installed for track use and get a 6-point harness for both track and autocross (except SCCA).

Does this make sense guys? Fire away.

-- Rich
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  mike.s on Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:38 pm

Rich, if we make it to the banquet and take the Miata instead of the other car, you've more than welcome to sit in it and get a feel for HDHCDD bar in both Sparco seat (driver's) or stock seat (passenger's). Bring your helmet and a broomstick if you'd like.

Going to CSP... we can talk about it. If you wish to keep the car streetable, it will never be a good CSP car.

Mine (like Rob's) is really underprepared. It has coilovers (with 400/280 lb springs), larger front bar, light flywheel, harder engine mounts so you an actually shift into 3rd gear (although not every time), intake, header and exhaust. Header makes it immediately not legal for the street in MA if are to go by the book.

If I wanted to make a competitive CSP car I would have to replace the springs with something in 700/500 range, put in a '01+ engine, buy stand-alone engine management electronics, take out the soft top and replace it with hard top that would be taken off for actual runs, replace the seats with something lighter, take out A/C, radio, speakers.

I'm sure I forget some stuff. But you can see where we are going with this, right? Going from CS to CSP is a minimum of $10K project not including trailer and towing vehicle, and even then I'm not so sure it makes competitive sense. Buying a '90 Miata and doing what Lee did with Tweety to move it to DP starting to sound like the right thing to do. Buying a '90 with viscous diff and making it into a ST2 car might be another option. Staying in stock sounds about the best option for purely competitive reasons if you don;t want to put that much into the car.

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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  Joe on Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:49 pm

This would be easier with a white background.....

After lots of reading on miata.net and calling around to a couple of
place that sell roll bars, I've come to the following conclusions:

1. There's a lot of conflicting information that's posted and it's hard to sort out fact from fiction
Yes

2. Unless you're 5'5" or under, you will NOT pass the 2" broomstick test on stock seats, regardless of which bar you get
Yes

3.The Hard Dog Hard Core DD, Boss Frog Clearview Standard and BF
Clearview Maxx are all at about the same height which is about as high
as you can get in a roll bar with a convertible top. These 3 bars are
all SCCA (Solo I) approved. There are a few others (Autopower, CSC) but
I'm not really considering them. The Hard Dog Ace does not have the
side protection I want and I personally don't like the looks.
There is no such thing as SCCA Approval... All of the Roll Bars meet the SCCA Specifications as long as you order one that way with at least one diagonal within the hoop and rear Diagonal supports..
The HDAce was designed to be behind the seats as a safety measure when not wearing a helmet, ie: Daily driver... Most of the other Bars are taller than a HDAce since they are much further forward but that position also increases the possibility that you will crack your head on the bar with or without a Helmet... Do order the SFI Foam with the Bar, not only is it required in many cases, you will want it...

Hmmm, you don't like the looks of the HDAce... I'll have to get better so you will get to see mine more often from that following position tongue

4.The Maxx sits further back (about 2") than the other two and is
therefore a little safer for street use and allows the seats to fully
recline, it would be the best choice in that respect. Ric from BF
assures me it's the same height as the standard bar.
This sounds like a good compromise between the HDAce and other Bars but make sure that the installed Bar doesn't end up closer to your head do to a need to clear interior structures...

5. For track use, none of the bars would pass the broomstick test with stock
seats, a foamectomy on the stock seats *might* work or might not (drops
you down 1 - 1.5"), a better solution would be to get a set of racing
seats (e.g. Sparco) with a 6-point harness for track use only. That
also solves the issue of shoulder belts slipping off with stock seats
and makes for a safer track setup.
Yes

6. For autocross, other than SCCA events, I should be able to use a harness with stock seats with
any of these bars. If I did SCCA, I'd have to use just the lap belt.
I wasn't aware that SCCA does not allow 6 point harness or is it an issue with the seat which would put you in another class???

7.Adding a hardtop to a roll bar, harness and stock seats is one solution
fo track , as Joe points out. You don't need to pass the broomstick
test. The BF Clearview Maxx can't be used with a hardtop (though some
people have reported they've been able to make it work). I don't really
want to spend $1K for a hardtop just for track (I don't really need one
otherwise), I'd prefer to put the money toward race seats.
Patience in your search for a hard top is a worth while endeavor... My nearly perfect Hard Top only cost me $600.00, is warm in the winter, dry in the rain and it matches my car's color... Somewhere out there is a white one for you....

CONCLUSION:

-->
Get a BF Clearview Maxx for better street safety, find some race seats
that can be quickly installed for track use and get a 6-point harness
for both track and autocross (except SCCA).
Sounds like a plan, but I would search for an installed BF Clearview Maxx to examine before purchasing one...

Does this make sense guys? Fire away.
Yes, but consider the above comments... If you can't find an installed example near you look on line for installation instructions or examples that match your car so you have an idea where the bar will be after you install it... It also will help when you actually do the install..
cheers
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  Bill B. on Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:41 am

The SCCA doesn't allow a harness in an open top car unless your helmet covered head is at least 2" below the rollbar.

Removing seat foam bumps you out of stock class too.

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Roll Bar

Post  Meierznutz on Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:03 pm

I have the Boss Frog clear view and I like it a lot. I can see what you mean about needing shorter seats though, I'm 5'10" and the cross bar is just about right in my view in the rear mirror. I think if I was sitting lower the bar and the car would be perfect for me. I want to get a pair of good seats but I also need to have some lumbar support and want something that can stand the miles I put on. I'm not afraid to jump in and go from the house in Watertown Ct to the track in Loudon NH in one jaunt. The car is tight and I can live with that, but I cant sacrifice comfort. I will have to try a couple seats before I buy and then the harness bar and straps go in.

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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  red61 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:00 am

"Removing seat foam bumps you out of stock class too."

That seems pretty ridiculous scratch
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Re: Rollbar suggestions?

Post  Meierznutz on Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:06 pm

So does changing seats bump you too? If it does then pulling foam, adding better seats, hell even installing the bar is useless. If haveing a piece of safety equipment means I cant go to the track... the hell with the track!

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